Promoting rape and ‘telling a rude joke’ are not the same thing
Cath Elliott
Posted on September 28, 2011
So far over 173,668 people have signed the change.org ‘Demand Facebook remove pages that promote sexual violence‘ petition, and another 3506 people have signed Orlagh Ni Léid’s petition ‘Petition Facebook to remove material that promotes rape culture‘.
And Facebook’s response?
Silence.
Well, apart from a ridiculous and hugely offensive statement that they issued on 17th August that is, a statement in which they said:
“It is very important to point out that what one person finds offensive another can find entertaining – just as telling a rude joke won’t get you thrown out of your local pub, it won’t get you thrown off Facebook.”
Yes, because promoting rape and condoning violent hate speech is completely the same thing as telling a ‘rude’ joke to your mates down the pub isn’t it?
It’s strange though, because no matter how many times I read the titles of these pro-rape Facebook pages, I still can’t even summon up so much as a smile, let alone laugh so hard I end up snorting and slapping my thigh (yes, seeing me genuinely lol is a sight to behold I assure you), and I’ve normally got a pretty good sense of humour. Maybe it’s because I’m a ‘humourless femnazi’, or maybe, and this is closer to the truth, it’s because under no circumstances is rape and sexual violence ever ever something to be laughed at: it’s just not funny.
For those that haven’t been following this story, some of the pages being highlighted by these petitions include such gems as:
- You know shes playing hard to get when your chasing her down an alleyway
- Riding Your Girlfriend Softly Cause You Don’t Want to Wake Her Up
- Raping Your Mate’s Girlfriend to See if She Can Put Up A Fight
- Abducting, Raping and Violently Murdering Your Friend, as a Joke
Bidisha and Women’s Views on News have been covering this issue pretty extensively, so I’m not going to repeat what’s already been said so eloquently. All I will say is, please sign the petitions, and let Facebook know what you think of their heinous rape apologist stance.
Too Much To Say For Myself 
Males own *all* public communications media. Males everywhere find rape funny. Facebook knows that females have nowhere else to go, that rape is not a hate crime, that females have no legal power. Rape sells. Pr0n sells. It creates traffic wherever “humans” are in the world. Females are lucky to have jobs at male sufferance.
You figure Zuckerboy is a pr0nhound?
Until females have material survival options *outside* of the patriarchy (which males will always reconstruct) we’re stuck with this sh!t.
Of course promoting rape and male sexual violence against women is ‘funny and humorous’ because women aren’t human are they? Just imagine the male hysteria if women created a facebook page promoting cutting off men’s dicks (aka penises). The page wouldn’t remain longer than a day because men would feel humiliated and objectified and yes they would claim page is sexist! (Actually men cannot be subjected to sexism because it is still men who are the ones in power and dominating women but MRA’s live in a fantasy world wherein they believe women are in positions of power and dominate men. But this is fantasy not fact).
However since it is men promoting rape and male sexual violence against women it is ‘funny and humorous’ because men really do believe default human is male and therefore promoting misogyny and male hatred/contempt for women is harmless because men can’t harm objects (sic) who aren’t human but supposedly just exist to serve men in whatever capacity men demand and expect. That’s the reality of male supremacy for you! Oh and by the way Scum by Valerie Solanis is routinely ‘trotted out’ by those male supremacists because one solitary book written by a woman had so much power and influence it apparently led innumerable women to engage in cutting off men’s dicks!
This makes me angry in ways I can’t describe. I wrote a post about the ‘riding your girlfriend softly’ back when I first saw it, which was a few months ago now I think. If anything it was reassuring that every time I checked the group there were people fighting the good fight attempting to inform people about rape culture and how rape jokes contribute to it. Yet on the other hand it was sickening and depressing to see how many people thought it was completely fucking hilarious and not at all offensive to anyone whatsoever (including a few people I would call friends, which upset me in a big way). I wanted to join in the debate but physically couldn’t bring myself to ‘like’ the group in order to do so.
URGH. Rant over (for now). Sorry.
It is horrifying how blind facebook and other media outlets can be.
Lucky Star
http://www.victimnomore.wordpress.com
There is this thing in America called free speech, it means you don’t get to silence speech just because you find it offensive. Making a joke about rape or even having rape fantasies is not the same as actually raping someone, actions can be punished, thoughts and speech cannot.
Well for a start off Matt no one has suggested punishing anyone for posting those so-called ‘jokes’. You do realise there’s a huge difference between deciding not to publish offensive material/comments, and actually arresting people or punishing them in some other way for making those comments in the first place don’t you?
This isn’t about impinging on anyone’s right to free speech. I could have decided not to publish your comment for example, but that wouldn’t have affected/limited your right to free speech at all. You would still have the same right to have your say, just not on my blog or in my space.
Similarly Facebook could make the same decision, in fact they have done with a number of other issues – refusing to allow photos of women breastfeeding for instance (bizarre I know) – so the question remains: why can Facebook recognise hate speech when it’s directed at other groups and work to ensure their site doesn’t provide a platform for that, but when it comes to hate speech directed at women they refuse to take it seriously or to do anything about it?
Cath I believe that it is because there have been so many movies, songs, books, tv shows, etc. that normalize rape and sexual assault and make light of what a terrible thing it really is. They make it acceptable and so therefore something that can be laughed at and watched with curiosity instead of something that we find revolting and immediately punishable. I am sorry for my short reply previously…I was dealing with some stuff and unable to process my feelings on this.
So many people talk about censorship and freedom of speech in protecting their right to mock, embarass, belittle women and women’s issues that the world just automatically thinks that it is ok so long as we do not keep someone from saying it where they want to. Hate speech and hate crimes are punished severely and hate speech is censored from many public forums where impressionable children may hear it and learn that hate. Unfortunately mysogyny is not one of the hate crimes that is punished. It is ok to hate women…hell in some places it is ok to beat and rape and even murder women.
I pray that one day we will have a world where this just is not so anymore. Only by shining a light on the dark age views and by continuing to speak out can we press for real change.
Love and light,
Lucky Star
http://www.victimnomore.wordpress.com
hello? I can’t post here
@Jennifer Drew
“Just imagine the male hysteria if women created a facebook page promoting cutting off men’s dicks (aka penises). The page wouldn’t remain longer than a day because men would feel humiliated and objectified and yes they would claim page is sexist!”
Actually, many, many such pages exist. A cursory glance at Facebook would show you that much. And none have been taken down.
A very few examples:
–http://www.facebook.com/pages/Raping-Old-Men/212606518770907
–http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dumping-your-boyfriend-via-a-slap-in-the-face/110669075693496
–http://www.facebook.com/pages/For-every-5-likes-I-get-I-will-slap-my-boyfriend-in-the-face/172653299465392
–http://www.facebook.com/pages/Punching-your-boy-friend-in-the-nuts-to-keep-the-balance-of-power/259336547417750
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be, but it does rather scupper the ‘if it were offensive statement about men it’d be removed’ argument.
The fact is that the lazy, polemical, anti-factual bullshit that people like you spout works to undermine reasonable and intelligent (like many of the other posters above) people’s attempts to promote a decent dialogue about the serious nature of sexual inequality and sexual assault.
And THIS:
“…because men really do believe default human is male and therefore promoting misogyny and male hatred/contempt for women is harmless because men can’t harm objects (sic) who aren’t human but supposedly just exist to serve men in whatever capacity men demand and expect”
Is exactly why sexist men can continue to get away with the ol’ chestnut about feminists being man haters etc.
You may well be part of the problem. You’re certainly not part of the solution.
Great article on CiF Cath.
Thanks
You are a hypocrite. You write for the Guardian, which operates one of the most migosynist websites on the net, a fact easily acknowledged by one look at the comments to your article. But Facebook is unacceptable is it?
Why do you publish your articles on a site which bars women? Or do you think that making a place intolerable to women and barring women are not the same thing?
Misogynist, I meant. If women ruled the world that word would be easier to spell.
As the moderators on CiF felt this was too much for the sensitive souls to read It thought I’d post it here.
Marc69 asked:
Oh Ms Woman is very much towards the middle of the feminist spectrum which is why she’s so popular with so many men on CiF.
It’s just when she writes an article here all the Fathers4Justice mob go onto red alert and they drop whatever they’re doing – you know like the washing up, the ironing, baking the kid’s birthday cake, in order to get onto here to play outraged of Wimbledon or wherever they hang out.
Cath: Would you care to comment on that CiF post of yours which can, arguably, be interpreted as making light of sexual violence, if not outright hate speech?
I’ve got a post brewing about it Andy, watch this space…….
Will do. I’m kinda interested.
For instance it could be viable to draw paralells with racism, wherein racism may have a, er, directionality**, which is determined by power structures and the relative places of the participants in an exchange.
Eg. A person dishing abuse out to someone lower in the hierarchy is comitting an “ism” of some sort, whereas a person lower in the hierarchy doing the reverse is, possibly, comitting a revoilutionary act and depending on the specific circumstance, might be risking their life.
I dunno. Maybe you can enlighten or failing that, inform…
**Is that a word? It is now!
bitethehand – or to put it another way, ‘Cath provides a platform for Fathers4Justice to reach millions’. I’m sure she would say it’s not her fault, there’s nothing she can do about it, but there is, isn’t there.
By the way, I have the greatest respect for how you pretty much singlehandedly challenged that mob of bigots at CiF for so long in the face of disgraceful abuse, while those so-called feminists on the staff sat watching with their popcorn. That the Guardian should respond by banning you says everything.