It’s the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women
Posted on November 25, 2010
And yes, it’s a disgrace that we even need to have one. But we do.
Rape Poem – by Marge Piercy
There is no difference between being raped
And being pushed down a flight of cement steps
Except that the wounds also bleed inside.
There is no difference between being raped
And being run over by a truck
Except that afterward men ask if you enjoyed it.
There is no difference between being raped
And being bit on the ankle by a rattlesnake
Except that people ask if your skirt was short
And why you were out anyhow.
There is no difference between being raped
And going head first through a windshield
Except that afterward you are afraid
not of cars,
But half the human race.
The rapist is your boyfriend’s brother.
He sits beside you in the movies eating popcorn.
Rape fattens on the fantasies of the “normal” male
Like a maggot in garbage.
Fear of rape is a cold wind blowing
All of the time on a woman’s hunched back.
Never to stroll alone on a sand road through pine woods,
Never to climb a trail across a bald
Without that aluminium in the mouth
When I see a man climbing toward me.
Never to open the door to a knock
Without that razor just grazing the throat.
The fear of the dark side of the hedges,
The back seat of the car, the empty house
Rattling keys like a snake’s warning.
The fear of the smiling man
in whose pocket is a knife.
The fear of the serious man
In whose fist is locked hatred.
All it takes to cast a rapist is seeing your body
As jackhammer, as blowtorch, as adding-machine-gun.
All it takes is hating that body
Your own, your self, your muscle that softens to flab.
All it takes is to push what you hate,
What you fear onto the soft alien flesh.
To bucket out invincible as a tank
Armoured with treads without senses
To possess and punish in one act,
To rip up pleasure, to murder those who dare
Live in the leafy flesh open to love.
WITH NO IMMEDIATE CAUSE – by Ntozake Shange
every 3 minutes a woman is beaten
every five minutes a
woman is raped/every ten minutes
a lil girl is molested
yet I rode on the subway today
i sat next to an old man who
may have beaten his old wife
3 minutes ago or 3 days/30 years ago
he might have sodomized his
daughter but i sat there
cuz the young men on the train
might beat some young women
later in the day or tomorrow
i might not shut my door fast
enuf/push hard enuf
every 3 minutes it happens
some woman’s innocence
rushes to her cheeks/pours from her mouth
like the betsy wetsy dolls have been torn
menses red & split/every
three minutes a shoulder
is jammed through plaster and the oven door/
chairs push thru the rib cage/hot water or
boiling sperm decorate her body
i rode the subway today
& bought a paper from a
man who might
have held his old lady onto
a hot pressing iron/i don’t know
maybe he catches lil girls in the
park & rips open their behinds
with steel rods/i can’t decide
what he might have done i only
know every 3 minutes
every 5 minutes every 10 minutes/so
i bought the paper
looking for the announcement
the discovery/of the dismembered
victims have not all been
identified/today they are
naked and dead/refuse to
testify/one girl out of 10’s not
coherent/i took the coffee
& spit it up/i found an
announcement/not the woman’s
bloated body in the river/floating
not the child bleeding in the
59th street corridor/not the baby
broken on the floor/
“there is some concern
that alleged battered women
might start to murder
their husbands & lovers with no
i spit up i vomit i am screaming
we all have immediate cause
every 3 minutes
every 5 minutes
every 10 minutes
women’s bodies are found
in alleys & bedrooms/at the top of the stairs
before i ride the subway/buy a paper/drink
coffee/i must know/
have you hurt a woman today
did you beat a woman today
throw a child across a room
are the lil girl’s panties
in yr pocket
did you hurt a woman today
i have to ask these obscene questions
the authorities require me to
every three minutes
every five minutes
every ten minutes
From “What is Justice for a Rape Victim” – by Phyllis Chesler
“Where are our freedom fighters, our resistance heroes ready to be dropped behind enemy lines? We are too few in number to make much of a difference. Are women so disassociated from our bodies and from each other that simple resistance terrorizes us more than our daily dose of humiliation and death?
Are most women so opportunistic, so cowardly, that we are willing to die for our Masters but not live for ourselves?
What have they done to us? What have we done to ourselves? Each woman knows that if she sides with another women against a man or against men’s laws, eventually the king’s men on their high horses will drag her away; imprison, interrogate, rape, and burn her to death as a witch; she knows no one will save her.
A woman is brave when she knows what can be done to her but despite such knowledge resists, helps other women anyway. A woman is brave when she resists the “good little girl” within; the voice that tells her to mind her own business, tend her own garden, don’t do anything that will get you in trouble, you’ll get caught, you’ll be sorry, you’ll be punished, no one will like you…
Women are safe if I am brave; I’m only as safe as other women are brave.
Otherwise, it’s open season on us all.”
From Are Women Human – by Catharine A MacKinnon
“If women were human, would we be a cash crop shipped from Thailand in containers into New York’s brothels? Would we be sexual and reproductive slaves? Would we be bred, worked without pay our whole lives, burned when our dowry money wasn’t enough or when men tired of us, starved as widows when our husbands died (if we survived his funeral pyre), sold for sex because we are not valued for anything else? Would we be sold into marriage to priests to atone for our family’s sins or to improve our family’s earthly prospects? Would we, when allowed to work for pay, be made to work at the most menial jobs and exploited at barely starvation level? Would we have our genitals sliced out to “cleanse” us (our body parts are dirt?), to control us, to mark us and define our cultures? Would we be trafficked as things for sexual use and entertainment worldwide in whatever form current technology makes possible? Would we be kept from learning to read and write?
If women were human, would we have so little voice in public deliberations and in government in the countries where we live? Would we be hidden behind veils and imprisoned in houses and stoned and shot for refusing? Would we be beaten nearly to death, and to death, by men with whom we are close? Would we be sexually molested in our families? Would we be raped in genocide to terrorize and eject and destroy our ethnic communities, and raped again in that undeclared war that goes on every day in every country in the world in what is called peacetime? If women were human, would our violation be enjoyed by our violators? And, if we were human, when these things happened, would virtually nothing be done about it?”
Thanks for sharing, Cath.
I was going to point out that some of the ideas expressed in the above writings come dangerously close to tarring all men with the same brush. I mean, “he might have sodomized his daughter”? Yeah, *might* but almost certainly not.
But then I realised that you’re right- there really are no innocent men, there are only those who haven’t done any of these nasty things *yet* or they haven’t been caught. Are women human? Men certainly aren’t!
After realising the error of my ways I thought I’d pen something too. Please read it, let me know what you think, then go and punch a man in the face. And by “face” I mean “crotch.” Thanks.
All men bastards be.
Men, in whose fantasies are woven a hatred of women AND ALL LIFE
Decadent, depraved, defilers!
Sent, from hell, with savage spears
To punish women, perfect and fair,
and maybe a few men who probably deserve it really.
Oh would that every man
(for there are no innocents!)
should be swept from the world
That gynartopia should be built
Where rabbits roam and cake be eaten
Until the end of time!
wow. lolly, that is quite incredible.
anyway, i thought this might interest you:
this is my report of how the council reacted yesterday to an exhibition by women survivors of male violence. misinformed, disturbing and plainly sad.
lolly, you say ‘almost certainly not’ but unless 1 man is very busy, lots of men are raping and murdering women every day. not all men, no. but it is happening.
Of course it’s happening.
Do you really look at every man and ask yourself whether he beats his wife and anally rapes his daughter? Honestly? Is that a good idea? Is that healthy?
It’s a slippery slope. Some men do bad things. Some women too.
Most child abuse is perpetrated by mothers. Do you look at every woman and wonder if she abuses her children? Of course you don’t.
Not forgetting of course ‘violence against women’ affects everyone (sic). Whenever I hear this claim I tell the male supremacist apologists to read Catherine McKinnon’s article ‘Are Women Human’ – because clearly we are not – remember ‘everyone’ refers to men never women. Male violence agaisnt women happens because it is a very, very effective way of maintaining male domination over women and yes many, many men believe it is their inalienable right to dominate and control women. There is no symmetry when the issue is about male domination over women – rather there is embedded male dominance and male control. Women do not even begin lives from an equal playing field compared to men.
Reality check – most child sexual violence is committed by men and this includes fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, the friendly (sic) male neighbour, the male teacher, the male coach, etc. etc. Claiming most child sexual violence is committed by women is a misogynistic lie.
We do not live in a society wherein women and men are just ‘individuals’ who have the freedom and right to enact whatever they wish against other so-called individuals, but we all live in a male supremacist society and furthermore one which is determined to hold women accountable for men’s violence committed against them.
This is why we have the International Day For Elimination of Male (yes male not female) Violence Against Women – but then just one day doesn’t make any difference does it to the innumerable women and girls who continue to be subjected to male sexual/physical/psychological violence does it?
Lolly, can you cite your source for your assertion that ‘most child abuse’ is perpetrated by mothers?
anyways I put the phrase into google, and this was top result.
(it appears to be referring to USAsian statistics as far as I can see).
Oh and here’s the second entry (note all those citations)
Note also the majority of perpetrators being male.
*waits for lolly to complain about my tone*
I am also puzzled by Lolly’s question about whether or not it is *healthy* to wonder whether a man may be violent or a sex offender. It seems to me that this is exactly the kind of thing women are regularly exhorted to do by the Daily Mail, HM Gov, old Auntie Thomasina cobley and all. And a woman who does not display the requisite amount of caution and thereby ‘gets herself raped’ by foolishly accepting a man’s invitation to walk her home, or to go to his place/her place for coffee, has only herself to blame.
Obviously it’s not in the same league as five portions of fruit and veg a day, or half an hours cardio, but the thing is, most of us have these attitudes towards males because we have ALL in our lives come across that seemingly really nice bloke who turned out to be a child abuser, or rapist, or wife beater. Most of us more than once I’d venture. I certainly have. And you know what – they all looked like perfectly normal guys.
‘but the thing is, most of us have these attitudes towards males because we have ALL in our lives come across that seemingly really nice bloke who turned out to be a child abuser, or rapist, or wife beater. Most of us more than once I’d venture. I certainly have. And you know what – they all looked like perfectly normal guys.’
exactly. sad, but true. when men stop abusing women, i’ll stop worrying.
Yes, you’re right.
Whenever I see a black person I wonder whether I’m looking at a criminal. And when black people are not over-represented in the criminal justice system, I’ll stop worrying.
I mean, the stats tell me I should think like that, right?
Hmm, “YAWN”, yes, an excellent demonstration of the differences between looking at a man and wondering if he’s a rapist/wife beater and looking at a black person and wondering if he or she is a mugger or a dealer.
If one is hate-filled, so is the other.
Well if the majority of victims of crime were white Lolly, and the majority of muggers and dealers were black, you might have a point. Unfortunately the vast majority of those convicted, for absolutely all crimes are WHITE. Some stats here.
Click to access stats-race-criminal-justice-system-07-08-revised.pdf
So I’m just forced to conclude you’re a racist.
2% of those convicted of sexual offences are women
Oh, and this is a very small study but still.
The lesbian families study is interesting. It is a small sample (78) but the study has been going on for 17 years with the same group (starting with 84 children). The other reasons for the small sample size was due to two factors – conception due to (artificial) insemination (meaning no het pairing involved) and no adult males in the household. It is significant that the pregnancies were planned ones, this may play a part in the lack of physical/verbal abuse (only one case of verbal abuse was reported in the study, no physical abuse, no sexual abuse).
In the couples that separated during the study, 71.4% were shared custody, and 28.6% the birthmother was the primary custodial parent.
Much of the focus of this study, and a number of similar studies mentioned in the paper, seem focused on “will it turn ’em gay?” being raised in a single-sex household. For the girls, they turned out predominantly “bisexual” rather than strictly heterosexual, and the boys no difference between being raised by lesbian parents vs het parents. They are all still subject to general media bombardment of heterosexuality of course. As they are all around the age of 17, this may be still early days for some of them, and I wonder how many of the girls will start to ‘phase out’ male partners over time?
I forgot to post a link to the actual papers:
Ok polly, so does this mean that you look at all white people and ask yourself whether they’ve mugged, robbed, burgled and murdered? I mean, unless one white person is very busy then lot of them are doing it, right? And the stats say, and it’s apparently ok to judge a group based on the action of some its individual members (I’m guessing there’s a statistical threshold where this becomes acceptable?)
I guess once white people stop committing crimes, you’ll stop worrying?
To take my cue from the hate poetry above, and the crime stats you mention :
yet I rode on the subway today
i sat next to a white person who
may have beaten her child to death
3 minutes ago or 3 days/30 years ago
she might be a serial killer
or a racist or a fascist
cuz the young white people on the train
might rob some old age pensioners…
– and on it goes.
If you can’t see that poetry like that is demonising a part of the human race on the basis of the actions of some, then you have a problem.
If I wrote a poem that, on the basis of individual experiences with individual women, warned men to watch out for those false allegations, those gold diggers etc etc, how would you feel?
I sat next to a woman on the bus
And I had to ask
Did you falsely accuse your husband
So you could keep the house
and the kids?
Before I buy a coffee/paper from you
I HAVE TO ASK
Did you get so drunk you couldn’t remember
if you said yes
Did you say he raped you
So daddy wouldn’t be angry with you?
Nasty stuff, huh? No different from some of the poetry above…
lolly, but the thing is the things in your hateful poem happen very rarely.
male violence against women happens a lot. all the time. every day. all over the world.
Maybe so. It’s still not right to encourage people to judge all of one group based on such matters.
Maybe *statistically* there are things that women are worse at or more likely to do or not to do, to find interesting or not. Should we judge all women by that, or would that be misogynistic reductionism, generalisation, prejudice?
But when it’s about men, suddenly statistics make generalisations and an guilty-by-default mentality ok.
You are missing the point somewhat Lolly.
98% of registered sex offenders are men.
That is the point.
A man is FAR MORE LIKELY than a woman to be a sex offender.
A person’s tendency to commit crimes is not linked to their race. Either way.
Oh and, I’ve said it once and it bears repeating. You’re just a racist. Otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to link a tendency to commit crimes to race.
It’s called risk assessment Lolly, you work on the probability of an event happening. The PROBABILITY of a man being a sex offender/physically violent is much higher than the probability of a woman being a sex offender/physically violent.
Oh and PS if a man has sex with a woman who’s too drunk to remember what happened, (or indeed a man who’s too drunk etc) knowing that’s how drunk she is, (which would be pretty bloody obvious) he’s a rapist – not legally, maybe, but morally. Because she is clearly not capable of giving meaningful consent. Would you support someone driving in that state? No? Well why would you think it’s ok to have sex with them then?
Of course men have had sex with women who are passed out on the floor unconscious by now and got away with it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-369561/Drunk-women-able-claim-rape.html
You’re not really making the case for men here Lolly.
Statistics have nothing to do with it.
If you can’t or won’t accept that then you won’t understand my argument (whether you agree with it or not).
I stand by my assertion about false rape allegations. A *minority* of allegations are false, I’d say. Would you agree?
A poem with lines like “I have to ask, did you make false allegations to ruin a man’s life” would be unfair. Why am I going to judge all women of being capable of that based on the fact that it’s theoretically possible and that it does happen in a few cases? It would be unfair on all those women who would never do such a thing.
A *minority* of men are sex offenders. Yet a poem making this leap- that it’s possible and that it does happen therefore I’ll graphically link every man I see with these ideas- that’s seen as some right on art?
Do you see the hypocrisy? It’s a complicated point so don’t feel bad if you can’t follow.
@ Lolly “A minority of men are sex offenders”
I disagree. I think it is true that a minority of men have formal complaints made against them to the police or law enforcement agencies.
The vast majority of sexual offences are never reported, that doesn’t mean that men did not commit those offences, it is just that women know that reporting is entirely futile. It is a mans world, set up to protect and defend the rights and wrongs of man.
Interesting… you really think that most men are sex offenders?
Pretty much yes. I think all men have the potential to be sex offenders, many actually are, few are actually formally complained about, even fewer receive any sort of sentence from the courts.
Msvirago, all people have the potential to be sex offenders, so that first bit doesn’t add much for me.
If most men are sex offenders, how is that? What falls into that category?
If you really believe that then the chances are that others do to and then some of the other comments on this post and blog in general make more sense.
Lolly, you seem to have comprehension problems, at the very least a poor understanding of feminist issues.
The thread is called “International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women”. That’s right, international. Because internationally, not just in one tiny corner of the world, it is recognised that women (and girls) suffer widespread violence by males specifically because they are female. Even Amnesty International recognise that this is a global problem.
The UN designated the day:
They did NOT designate it “The International Day of People Violence Against Other People”. So there blows the theory that “women are just as violent as men” as you have tried to make out. It is about male violence against females. Sure, males are violent to other males as well, but in general, women (and children) do not stand a chance against a violent male. Overwhelmingly, it is males that are the perpetrators of violence against men, women and children.
Next, in my little Feminism-101 spiel, is the concept of a continuum – all males are on a continuum of misogyny, from very non-misogynist and non-violent males, through to the serial rapists and murderers. The debate is open as to how many fall into the “good” category, and how many fall into the potentially “bad” category.
However, it seems, via various studies conducted, the “bad” or “dangerous to women” category is about 50%-60% of males. That makes it a problem with the majority of males, not a teeny weeny little percentage of males.
So next time you stand in a room with 10 males, rest assured, five or six of them would probably rape you if they thought they could get away with it. The problem becomes, you do not know which five or six they are – as rapists generally look like normal men. Because they are ‘normal’ men. There is no “R” tatooed on their foreheads to denote which ones will rape you. That is what is meant by “all men are potentially rapists”. I can stand in a room of 10 females and not have to worry about any of them raping me.
Males who dismiss these issues as “women’s problems” are sympathisers. They are doing nothing to prevent the widespread problem of male violence against women and children, even though they actually are not doing themselves any favours either. They are in fact, via apathy, connected to the “bad” end of the continuum. They are enablers. There are no real studies to determine this percentage, but at a guess, easily another 10-20%. In the fictional room of 10 males, there would be another one or two that might not rape you, but would not come to your aid either. They may even film it on their mobile phones. Or it could be a misogynist judge that routinely urges the jury to reach a “not guilty” verdict in a rape trial. That brings our “bad” category up to 60-80%. The majority of men, and their attitudes towards women.
So cut the “equality feminism” crap, because it does nothing to address the underlying issues facing women. You come off looking either grossly ignorant or a persistent troll. It is also quite offensive that you continue to comment in this fashion on a thread devoted to ending male violence against women.
Thanks for your reply FAB Libber and those incredible statistics.
All men are potential rapists? All people are potential murderers. All chinese people are potential child abusers. All blonds are potential extortionists.
Saying that you’re more likely to be raped by a man than a woman doesn’t say anything about the likelihood overall, and I think that’s where I disagree with the view that is demonstrated by the above poem.
I’m afraid I simply can’t believe that more than half of men would rape a woman if they thought they could get away with it. I meet a lot of men in my life, professional and social, and I think most men, like most women, are decent enough.
But if you believe that most men are capable of such things then I can see why you might look at men and ask the questions posed in the poem in question.
I fail to see why asking these questions or saying these things is offensive. You say I do nothing to address the underlying issues. Well nor does hateful poetry that demonises the entire demographic that needs to change its behaviour, in varying degrees, to address these issues.
Having just read this comment through in its entirety, it is interesting to note that you have not offered any evidence for your position beyond ‘I don’t believe it’ which is pretty weak as arguments go. Do you have any evidence to offer or are you happy with coming off as akin to someone sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting la-la-la-la! I can’t hear you?
Firstly, what’s your view on this? Are most men sex offenders? If so, please explain how this is the case.
Ok, the reason for my belief that the majority of men are not rapists could be that I consider people innocent until proven guilty. Or it could be occam’s razor- I’ve seen nothing to convince me that they are. Or it could be my own life experiences. Take your pick. All more credible than the rubbish (imho) on that dianarussell.com page. Or is that rock solid evidence for you?
I can’t prove that the moon isn’t made of cheese… but by default I’m going to assume it isn’t. If you want to believe it is, if that fits your world view, then fine by me. And I’m all ears if you want to try and convince me that it is, but there’s probably no point in sending me a link to the home page of the Lunar Cheese Cult with stats on the cheesiness of the moon 😉
I’ll take that as an affirmative answer to my question .
Take it how you like Spicy. Since you don’t have any views on the subject, you don’t have to back yours up at all, eh?
I am trying to weigh the evidence of both viewpoints before rashly rushing to a conclusion. Unfortunately, you are unwilling to provide any evidence to back up your assertions or even to answer a straightforward request without snark. From that, I will draw my own conclusions about the strength of your position.
Spicy, the comments of this blog post are probably not what you should use to decide whether you believe that most men are sex offenders.
The “evidence” I’ll offer is this: most men are not convicted of rape during their lives. A very, very small minority of men will be convicted of sex offences.
Now I think we all agree that the legal system fails a lot of victims of these crimes.
But I really think the onus is on those who claim that most men are sex offenders to produce some evidence to this effect. I mean, that’s the newly arrived theory…
Hence my analogy to the moon being made of cheese- it might be true. There might be a conspiracy. The moon rocks brought back might be fake. But it would take some evidence to make us believe that.
Given that most rapists are not convicted* – as an argument that doesn’t hold much water but thank you for a more considered response.
I think the truth probably lies somewhere between – a significantly higher proportion of men are sex offenders that it seems you (Lolly) are comfortable with accepting but equally, a minority of these sex offenders are multiple offenders. Whether overall this means that men who don’t commit sexual offence are in the minority or majority is not easy to determine.
* See for example Repeat Rape and Multiple Offending Among Undetected Rapists by David Lisak and Paul M. Miller, published in Violence and Victims, Vol 17, No. 1, 2002 (Lisak & Miller 2002) or Reports of Rape Reperpetration by Newly Enlisted Male Navy Personnel by Stephanie K. McWhorter, et al., published in Violence and Victims, Vol, 24, No. 2, 2009 (McWhorter 2009). (Unfortunately neither are available online but in the first, the researchers found that 76 men committed 439 rapes and every single one was unconvicted. A further 44 men had committed ‘only’ a single rape. In the second, 96 men attempted or completed 865 rapes with a further 144 men admitting to a single rape / attempted rape.
“Given that most rapists are not convicted” is not what I said.
My point is that most *men* are never convicted of a sexual offence during their lifetime.
That has to be a starting point for estimates of how many men are sexual offenders.
To go from a state of affairs where a tiny minority of men are convicted of sexual offences to the claim that most men are sex offenders is a huge leap, and one for which I don’t see any compelling evidence.
This is inevitably dismissed with talk of ambiguities about whether an offence was committed, whether it gets reported, whether there is sufficient evidence, whether it gets a conviction, whether this is a repeat offence… mix in a few “studies” conducted by a few interest groups, mash up the resultant “statistics” and lo and behold, Statistically, Most Men Are Rapists.
Which leads me to believe that it’s based on ideology and not much else. Which makes your suggestion that I am “sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting la-la-la-la! I can’t hear you” ironic.
I can sum this exchange up in three words: Passive-Aggressive Trolling.
In less than seven hours apart, from the PA Troll, aka lolly:
“Thanks for your reply FAB Libber and those incredible statistics.”
“All more credible than the rubbish (imho) on that dianarussell.com page. ”
You are wasting your time, lolly is troll-baiting, and no amount of evidence or statistics will ever convince the “all-knowledgeable lolly” (scare quotes intended to be absolutely scary). It actually does not matter how many statistics we cite, lolly will dismiss them out of hand (the stats on the Diana Russell page are from a number of studies, from researchers including MALE researchers). And there are in fact males who believe that male violence against women is both pandemic and preventable.
I calculated the number of reported rapes per hour to be approximately one per hour in the UK. Well, if that is due to such a tiny proportion of men, they really must have a shitload of viagra to make the rounds. And that is only the reported rapes, which is estimated to be about 10% of the total number. Total rapes are 10 or 11 per hour in the UK. The “three” dudes you claim to be responsible for all of these are very busy boys.
“The “three” dudes you claim to be responsible ” um, what?
I see nothing to convince me that anything near a majority of men are dangerous to women.
Far too many men are, that’s for sure.
But, statistically, if there are 10 rapes per hour, factoring in:
* repeat offenders (meaning for every, what, 5 rapes there’s one guilty man)
* 30,000,000 men in the UK
We’re talking a tiny percentage. Yes, still too many, we can agree on that.
But a long way off *most* men.
I’d be interested in your opinion, minus the personal attacks 😉
FAB Libber “The “three” dudes you claim to be responsible ” um, what? I see nothing to convince me that anything near a majority of men are dangerous to women. Far too many men are, that’s for sure. But, statistically, if there are 10 rapes per hour, factoring in: * repeat offenders (meaning for every, what, 5 rapes there’s one guilty man) * 30,000,000 men in the UK We’re talking a tiny percentage. Yes, still too many, we can agree on that. But a long way off *most* men. I’d be interested in your opinion, minus the personal attacks 😉