<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: And she&#8217;s back</title>
	<atom:link href="http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:06:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laurel Dean</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laurel Dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gregory, I wasn&#039;t saying that gay is a gender, but that the discussion was entirely based around male perpetrators, whether in gay or straight relationships. It was never acknowledged that women could also be perpetrators.

Jennifer - I am not in any way deflecting attention away from women survivors but spreading it to cover all survivors - removing the focus from gender altogether. No human being should be abused or experience violence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gregory, I wasn&#8217;t saying that gay is a gender, but that the discussion was entirely based around male perpetrators, whether in gay or straight relationships. It was never acknowledged that women could also be perpetrators.</p>
<p>Jennifer &#8211; I am not in any way deflecting attention away from women survivors but spreading it to cover all survivors &#8211; removing the focus from gender altogether. No human being should be abused or experience violence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polly Styrene</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2701</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polly Styrene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gregory gay isn&#039;t a gender because it&#039;s a sexual orientation.  The two are completely different.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gregory gay isn&#8217;t a gender because it&#8217;s a sexual orientation.  The two are completely different.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Butterflywings</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2697</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Butterflywings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2697</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FFS. 
Being a perpetrator of violence is NOT an illness.
End of matter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FFS.<br />
Being a perpetrator of violence is NOT an illness.<br />
End of matter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gregory</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gregory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If unions promote the notion that male perpetrators should have time off work then once again the system works in favour of men and disadvantages women.&quot;

Do you want me to tell you the union that does most work for sex offender members?

The NASUWT are the biggest  falsely accused society  in the entire world.

Gregory]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If unions promote the notion that male perpetrators should have time off work then once again the system works in favour of men and disadvantages women.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you want me to tell you the union that does most work for sex offender members?</p>
<p>The NASUWT are the biggest  falsely accused society  in the entire world.</p>
<p>Gregory</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gregory</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2695</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gregory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;on the gender spectrum can be a perpetrator.&quot;

Gay isn&#039;t a gender,  because if it is equated as a gender, they can be barred from a big heap of jobs.

( in the same way as gender)

Which is why the major league gay orgs don&#039;t want to go that  &#039;gender&#039; equivalent route.

Gregory]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;on the gender spectrum can be a perpetrator.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gay isn&#8217;t a gender,  because if it is equated as a gender, they can be barred from a big heap of jobs.</p>
<p>( in the same way as gender)</p>
<p>Which is why the major league gay orgs don&#8217;t want to go that  &#8216;gender&#8217; equivalent route.</p>
<p>Gregory</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cath Elliott</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cath Elliott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All unions have drinking Polly, you just have to know the right people ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All unions have drinking Polly, you just have to know the right people <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polly Styrene</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polly Styrene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Though my unions been ok, through my long dark night of threatening employment tribunals,  they don&#039;t have drinking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though my unions been ok, through my long dark night of threatening employment tribunals,  they don&#8217;t have drinking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polly Styrene</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polly Styrene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also I need to get myself in a decent union. Must. Find. New. Job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also I need to get myself in a decent union. Must. Find. New. Job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polly Styrene</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polly Styrene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was under the impression we had something called a &#039;criminal justice system&#039; which is meant to deal with stuff like that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was under the impression we had something called a &#8216;criminal justice system&#8217; which is meant to deal with stuff like that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Drew</title>
		<link>http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2009/06/21/and-shes-back/#comment-2688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer Drew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-2688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No it is not the role for Unions to help male perpetrators seek time off work in order to &#039;work on their anger management.&#039;  Most perpetrator programmes are focused on pseudo male anger management as though violent men commit intimate partner terrorism against their female partners because such men cannot control their anger.  A few male perpetrator programmes do work with violent men but they refuse to accept the male perpetrators&#039; excuses, justifications, minimalisations and women-blaming.  This is why such programmes do not have a huge success rate because these programmes work to challenge male privilege and pseudo belief in male ownership of women and children.  

If unions promote the notion that male perpetrators should have time off work then once again the system works in favour of men and disadvantages women.  Apparently any attempt by women to gain a small amount of equality is immediately met with &#039;but what about the men, they too should be entitled to the same privileges.&#039;  But of course our patriarchal system is not designed for women - it is for men and it is men who are the ones who benefit not women.

So, if male perpetrators are to be given time off work in order to attend anger management programmes, then the same issue should apply say, to men who are &#039;sex addicts,&#039; or men who are alcoholics, etc.  As Cath Elliott says, male violence against women is a crime - or at least it was a crime the last time I checked the law.  Men who commit violence against women and are convicted, must expect to be held accountable for their violence not offered &#039;time off&#039; which neatly minimalises their violence.

Yes, some men do experience violence from their female partners but overwhelmingly it is male partners who are committing this violence in a variety of ways.  

Claims many men experience violence from their female partners are commonly used to deflect attention away from the women survivors and instead once again men&#039;s lives and issues become the central issue.  Furthermore, men who experience violence from their female partners do have options such as leaving the woman and they are commonly in a far better financial position than the woman. 

For too long women have been expected to step aside whilst other issues are considered far more important - such as racism and homophobia but these affect both women and men and of course the ones who benefit are men because the issue then becomes one of seeking to give non-white and homosexual males the same rights as white heterosexual males.  Non-white women and lesbian women are sidelined and/or ignored, since the aim is not to give all women full human rights but only men.

So, the motion was rightly passed and no women survivors are not passive victims but if we cannot name the acts men commit against women and name the fact that women are victimised by men then we cannot even begin to challenge embedded notions that man = human being = man is the centre of the universe and woman is the auxillary.

Many men do not want to speak out and challenge other men about their misogynistic attitudes and behaviour because it means the men who speak out will be labelled &#039;effeminate or not a man.&#039;  It is the power men have over other men which ensures the silent majority remain silent, even when empirical evidence consistently shows male violence against women is a huge social issue rather than just isolated incidents committed by individual men.  

Male supremacy is maintained by the acts violent men commit against women.  There is no need for all men to be violent because given our society is male-dominant, male-centered and male-defined, men who commit violence against women are consistently excused, justified or else their accountability is minimalised.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it is not the role for Unions to help male perpetrators seek time off work in order to &#8216;work on their anger management.&#8217;  Most perpetrator programmes are focused on pseudo male anger management as though violent men commit intimate partner terrorism against their female partners because such men cannot control their anger.  A few male perpetrator programmes do work with violent men but they refuse to accept the male perpetrators&#8217; excuses, justifications, minimalisations and women-blaming.  This is why such programmes do not have a huge success rate because these programmes work to challenge male privilege and pseudo belief in male ownership of women and children.  </p>
<p>If unions promote the notion that male perpetrators should have time off work then once again the system works in favour of men and disadvantages women.  Apparently any attempt by women to gain a small amount of equality is immediately met with &#8216;but what about the men, they too should be entitled to the same privileges.&#8217;  But of course our patriarchal system is not designed for women &#8211; it is for men and it is men who are the ones who benefit not women.</p>
<p>So, if male perpetrators are to be given time off work in order to attend anger management programmes, then the same issue should apply say, to men who are &#8216;sex addicts,&#8217; or men who are alcoholics, etc.  As Cath Elliott says, male violence against women is a crime &#8211; or at least it was a crime the last time I checked the law.  Men who commit violence against women and are convicted, must expect to be held accountable for their violence not offered &#8216;time off&#8217; which neatly minimalises their violence.</p>
<p>Yes, some men do experience violence from their female partners but overwhelmingly it is male partners who are committing this violence in a variety of ways.  </p>
<p>Claims many men experience violence from their female partners are commonly used to deflect attention away from the women survivors and instead once again men&#8217;s lives and issues become the central issue.  Furthermore, men who experience violence from their female partners do have options such as leaving the woman and they are commonly in a far better financial position than the woman. </p>
<p>For too long women have been expected to step aside whilst other issues are considered far more important &#8211; such as racism and homophobia but these affect both women and men and of course the ones who benefit are men because the issue then becomes one of seeking to give non-white and homosexual males the same rights as white heterosexual males.  Non-white women and lesbian women are sidelined and/or ignored, since the aim is not to give all women full human rights but only men.</p>
<p>So, the motion was rightly passed and no women survivors are not passive victims but if we cannot name the acts men commit against women and name the fact that women are victimised by men then we cannot even begin to challenge embedded notions that man = human being = man is the centre of the universe and woman is the auxillary.</p>
<p>Many men do not want to speak out and challenge other men about their misogynistic attitudes and behaviour because it means the men who speak out will be labelled &#8216;effeminate or not a man.&#8217;  It is the power men have over other men which ensures the silent majority remain silent, even when empirical evidence consistently shows male violence against women is a huge social issue rather than just isolated incidents committed by individual men.  </p>
<p>Male supremacy is maintained by the acts violent men commit against women.  There is no need for all men to be violent because given our society is male-dominant, male-centered and male-defined, men who commit violence against women are consistently excused, justified or else their accountability is minimalised.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

